Episode 28 - 8 Rules for Branding with Steve Dimeo, Creative Director at Pine
8 Rules for Branding with Steve Dimeo, Creative Director at Pine.
See yourself through your customers’ eyes
Understand the difference between a brand and a campaign.
Understand that what you do or sell is not who you are as a brand.
Think long-term.
Think holistically.
Think about your personality.
Be different.
Hire experts.
Steve DiMeo is a Creative Director and copywriter with a 35+ year history of award-winning, results-driven work in the advertising industry. Throughout his career, he has developed a strong conceptual development and strategic creative approach for digital, integrated marketing campaigns, advertising, broadcast, branding, content strategy and development.
His experience includes working on accounts in consumer brands, hospitality, retail, pharmaceutical, and business-to-business. He is a Managing Partner, Founder, and Creative Director at PINE, an ad agency located in Philadelphia. Steve also teaches advertising at Temple University.
Kate (00:23):
Welcome to another episode of eight by Kate. Hey Bella, how's it going? Good. How are you? Good. I'm super excited today on our enter the expert. We have Steve DeMayo excited that he's going to share his wisdom with us. He'll be giving us eight rolls for branding. Bella, tell our listeners about our guests today.
Bella (00:45):
Yeah, absolutely. So Steve DeMille is a creative director and copywriter with a 35 plus year history of award-winning results driven work in the advertising industry throughout his career. He has developed a strong conceptual development and strategic creative approach for digital integrated marketing campaigns, advertising broadcast, branding, content strategy, and development. His experience includes working on accounts and consumer brands, hospitality, retail, pharmaceutical, and business to business. He is a managing partner, founder and creative director at pine and ad agency located in Philadelphia. Steve also teaches advertising at temple university.
Kate (01:30):
My daughter, Claudia who's also works here at hos. She is a temple grad. So first of all, 35 plus years. So what are you did you start when you were 10?
Steve (01:44):
I love you already.
Kate (01:48):
I was, I just noticed I'm like 35 years. Okay. So
Steve (01:51):
Yeah, it's been a while and you know, it's, it's it's been interesting, you know, to go through all of the changes over the 35 years, you know starting out with, when I started back in the day you know, advertising and marketing was, was the, the basic traditional stuff. It was print, it was radio TV you know, newspaper, direct mail, those kinds of things. And, you know, it was really interesting to see all the changeover. I mean, when I started there weren't computers, I didn't work on a computer. I worked on it, a word processor, typewriter, and then moving into computers and then computers led to the web and then web led to you know, emails and then social media. So it's been really interesting seeing all of those changes and knowing like kids getting out of college now, didn't know all that stuff. So I like to infuse some of that traditional stuff into what I teach at temple.
Kate (02:50):
I love that. Yeah. My, my daughter didn't realize that there was a time where there were only seven digits and a phone number. She's like, what the word, Ted I'm like, yeah, there used to be only seven digits
Steve (03:03):
And that wasn't
Kate (03:04):
Too, too long ago. So I understand that this stuff has really changed and I am a lover of old advertising by the way. I think that's what actually drew me to marketing to begin with at my very first business. I really well, I love everything vintage. So, but specifically vintage advertising. I remember one of my very first apartments. I think that was majority of what I had on the walls was like vintage advertising. So that was super, super cool. Well, I'm excited today that we're going to be talking about these eight rules for branding. Cause you know what, I think a lot of people miss this today because they see so much content on social media and they think they don't need to address this before they start doing anything. Right. So I love that we're having this conversation and that you're bringing your expertise. So let's hop right into number one.
Steve (03:57):
Okay. All right. So number one, see yourself through customers' eyes. I, you know, I cannot stress this enough for anything for advertising, for branding, for whatever you're doing. You know, people want to know what's in it for me. I mean, basically let's face it. We're all selfish, right? We want to know what's in it for us. You know, if your brand is all about patting yourself on the back, no one's going to care. You know, Hey, we're the number one Nissan dealer in the Delaware valley. That's great. What does that mean for me? You know, oh, we have, you know, more cars on the lot. We have more, you know, we no haggle pricing. We do this, we do that. We do that. So for you, that's why we're number one. Okay. I get it now, you know, but it requires you to know about your audience and understand what matters to them and then to create that emotional connection.
Kate (04:54):
And do you find that a lot of clients that you probably deal with think that they know, and then when you start having the conversations, you're like you are clueless. Yes.
Steve (05:05):
Well, especially, you know, companies and brands that have been around for a while and go, well, you know, we're doing fine so far. We've been around for 40 years. We're doing fine. So whatever's out there is fine, but it's a, it's, it's a new audience. It's, you know, you have to think about it's new times and people are looking at things differently. And so it's not enough just to say what you offer it's it's you have to really connect with the audience. I
Kate (05:36):
Agree with that too, because you also have to realize that people are able to see everything. Now it's not like, remember the yellow pages, remember that I'm dating myself, you know, you're going through the phone book, looking something up, but now it's everywhere and people are making promises and commitments left and right. So you need to make sure that your messaging is clear to that specific audience. Yeah. And when
Steve (06:01):
People are looking up looking for you, you know, they're looking for something, they're looking for it on the web. They want to know that you know, when they land on your site, you want to make sure that you are speaking to them and you are telling them we have what you need. We we see you, we understand you. And everything we do is for you. So always see it through customers' eyes.
Kate (06:24):
Yeah. And, and I also think doing it not only from the written word, but the visual. Oh yeah, yeah. So Bella actually did a great blog today about tick talk and I'm like, well, that's like a whole different audience there. Right. And, and the content that you're distributing and what that looks like is going to be completely different. So it's sort of the same thing as far as, not only the, the words, the written word, but the image as well. Yeah, totally awesome. Number two, number
Steve (06:55):
Two, understand the difference between a brand, your brand and a campaign. And I think a lot of there's a lot of confusion as to what this is, you know, they, you know, Rams will put out campaigns and, and base their whole personality around the campaign. But a brand is, is enduring a campaign just targets a specific goal, right? So a campaign can change over time, but the brand is really based in the promise that you reinforce over and over and over with your customers. You know, th the campaign aligns with the brand, but it isn't your brand, your brand is, is the basis for all that you do and who you are and how you represent yourself in the market.
Kate (07:43):
Yeah, that's even when we begin to work with people, we always ask for brand assets and, you know, those are, we can't deliver campaigns appropriately, be a digital, unless we have those pieces in those elements, which is creating your brand.
Steve (08:00):
Right, right. You know, and, and it really is the philosophy behind the company and that shouldn't change over time that should never change, you know, who you are and what you represent and who you, how you want to be seen by by your customers or prospective customers. That's your brand. You know, you think about some of the biggest brands, Nike has always been true to their brand, who they are you know, just do, it has become synonymous with their brand. But if you look at their campaigns, they're so different, right? The campaigns have changed over time. Mcdonald's their campaigns have changed constantly, but their brand is who they are, their, you know, their family restaurant for everyone to come and enjoy their food. I mean, it it's, it's,
Kate (08:52):
You know, on a diet, Steve, I know
Steve (08:54):
Me too, me too, and now I want a big Mac, but, but again, that brand has to be an enduring, a representation of who you are. So it takes a lot more thought to come up with your brand.
Kate (09:09):
Yeah. I always tell people don't skip that step. You know, we, we work with a lot of startups and we do see sometimes we're like, okay, I don't know. And Bella and I will go off and we're like, I don't even think they understand what their message is.
Bella (09:22):
Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to create campaigns, especially when, and sometimes I think people have great ideas for campaigns and they'll run it. And then we're like, well, this kind of doesn't go against your whole brand message. So probably not the best idea. So I love that you said that it should align with your brand because sometimes good campaign ideas kind of will just go way off of what your whole brand is all about. Right? Yeah. Well,
Kate (09:48):
You see that a lot with like copycatting, like somebody will get it. And we see this all the time clients will get an email and send it to us and saying, we should do something like this. And I'm like, oh, you
Steve (09:58):
Shouldn't exactly. I'm sure you see. Yeah, I do. And in fact that comes up differently. That's 0.7 when we get there,
Bella (10:10):
I'm sorry. I'm jumping ahead. I don't play nice in the sandbox. Okay.
Kate (10:17):
Number three, give it to them.
Steve (10:19):
Number three, understand that what you do or sell is not who you are as a brand. It kind of mirrors number two, but it really is, you know, you're not what you sell. What you sell is the outcome of who you are. So really, you know who you are as a brand find, what is your story answer? The why, why are you not just, who are you, but why are you? And you know, so this brand reflects your core beliefs. It's not the products that you're putting out or the services that you're doing. They are, they are a a function of who you are and what you do, but really bottom line is who you are as a brand. Again, it's, it's more than a campaign and it's more than what you're selling.
Kate (11:08):
Do you like, cause you've been doing this so long. I know we find it difficult to extract some of that information from people. So I'm assuming you've had, you have the lay of the land of the stuff of how to get it out of people, because we struggle with that sometimes. And just understanding and having them articulate,
Steve (11:27):
Right. Well, you know, obviously companies love their products or their services. They love what they do. Right. and th th the thing is to, to find that passion behind the love for what they do or what they're making, find, why they love what they do, find out why they, they appreciate when they hear great feedback from clients or customers, you know, what, what is the the inner passion that they have, that's where the brand comes from. It's not the love for the, for what they're doing, but it's the passion behind what they're
Kate (12:06):
Doing, right? Yeah. So I I'm, I love this cause I'm hoping everyone's listening and small businesses are actually listening to this and taking, they should be writing this all down, but yeah,
Bella (12:15):
Yeah, yeah. Like it's basically like the reasoning, like, what's the reason for this? Why are you doing it?
Steve (12:22):
I answered that. Why you know, and the why could be a great story, you know I mean, you know, businesses that have been around for years and, you know, they have immigrant story, they came, they opened this, this store and it's grown. And now the, the son and the grandson has to have taken over the granddaughter. And, you know, there's a story there, and there's a love for that, that story and why you're doing what you're doing and not just like the thing that you're selling, it's why that passion and that's where you have to get, you know, really get in deep. And I think you know, a lot of times it takes maybe it just takes sitting down and asking them a series of questions and questions doing kind of a you know, a focus group with the people in charge and just really hammering home that getting behind the, the the obvious.
Kate (13:23):
I love that. I love that. Okay. Number four, number
Steve (13:27):
Four, think longterm. So, as I said before, you know, the brand is enduring. So what you really need to look at is not just who you are now, but who you want to be, and will that branding decision that you make now fit into the goal, your goals, and customers' lives in the future. It's not easy, it's not easy, but generally, you know, when you can boil it down to a couple of statements, when you can boil it down to two, some really powerful words that are, that are enduring and that, that matter, and that matter to you, and you feel like these are the things the behind that brand, this is what I really want to be from now on, this is who I want to be. This is how I want to be perceived. So you have to think more than just where we are now as a business.
Kate (14:18):
Yeah. I mean, we, we actually had a few clients that have come at us and said, we think we're going to rebrand. And we're like, no, no, it's not the time to do that.
Bella (14:30):
I think, yeah. I think it's hard to, for people. I mean, just with the pandemic, and this is just coming from my own perspective too, is like, long-term with your business. I mean, things have changed so much, so it kind of does change you know, your timeline for your business. Like, okay, well now I might have to, depending on what type of business you have, you kind of have change things because of what just happened with the pandemic. Yeah.
Kate (14:55):
I'll give you an example of something I saw. I actually, last night I went to dinner with my pops and there's this local bar around where he lives and they have this huge billboard, like on a main highway. And it says smoking inside. And I'm like, who would have ever thought that they had to promote that they allow smoking indoors. I thought to myself, what, you know, what a message. Right. But they didn't need that message. I mean, I know this doesn't really go along with number four, but I was just thinking about like, just what Bella was saying about things are changing and things sometimes change in. There's still the same. There's still the same bar. Right.
Steve (15:43):
But you know, and people, a lot of businesses think, well, I'm redoing my logo. So that's my brand. And a logo is just a, you know, that does not represent who you are. You can change your logo, but it's, you know, it's, it's everything that's behind that.
Bella (16:00):
Yeah. People get really hung up on their logo. I've noticed. And I'm just like, well, that's so easy to just change. That's not going to make or break your business. I always
Kate (16:08):
Say, you will, you will never sell anything.
Bella (16:12):
They cereal logo, clothes, LS. It's like clothing, I guess. But not really because those change over time too
Kate (16:19):
Drop name, I get it like, you know, or something. Right,
Steve (16:23):
Right. I mean, look at pizza hut. I worked on pizza hut many, many years ago. I actually worked on pizza hut when they were just introducing pizza hut delivery to the Northeast region. So believe it or not. Yeah. Remember when pizza hut was restaurants and that's the only way you could get their salad bar. Right, right. Yes. And those, those red cups, but, you know, and they've changed their logo several times since then, but now they're back to their original logo. They went back to the red roof and you know, and, and you know, it's, but the one thing that really hasn't changed with them again is what they stand for.
Kate (17:05):
Yeah, exactly. I love that. Okay. Let's get into number five. I love this one. Yeah.
Steve (17:12):
This is think holistically and you know, everything you do, every promotion, every post should align with your brand. I know I mentioned that earlier with the campaign, but you know, we're talking about more than just a campaign we're talking about pretty much every day. If you think about apple, you know, from the commercials they run to their website, to when you walk in the store to when you leave with a product to when you open that packaging, everything feels like it came from the same place, right. Starbucks. When you walk out with that Starbucks cup, you know, where you've been, there's nothing at is the same way, whole foods, it's it. You feel it from an, every aspect that they do, some do it better than others. You know, like I look at Walmart and Walmart with their advertising and it's fun and it's a Beaton's family pilot.
Steve (18:05):
And then you go into a Walmart and it's not quite, you know, what you saw in the commercials, but, you know, target is, and, and whole foods is, and Starbucks. Those are the kinds of things that make a brand solid because B when you're consistent and you stick with it and all you do, that's really, really important. And I'm talking about, you know every post you make needs to have a, a voice it needs to have a stand for something. And you shouldn't break that because inconsistency, you lose loyalty. Like, who am I? Who is this? Who am I talking? You know, who just posted that you know, w where did this ad come from? Or where did this, you know, what is going on with their website, when you, when you deviate from the holistic feel of your brand, people get confused. Yeah.
Kate (19:03):
I mean, we work with you know, some influencers as well over the years. And when they work with big brands, man, do they have a laundry list of do's and don'ts right. Cause they want to make sure, even though that influencer is sharing information about their product and they're paying for that service there, they still have their we'll call them brand standards, right. To the brand. Exactly.
Steve (19:26):
I remember I was freelancing for a while at this agency that was doing social media for Applebee's. And let me tell you, people love their Applebee's from the comments, you know, on their Facebook page and their social media. And I was doing a lot of their like responses to, you know, just canned responses and writing a whole bunch of that stuff. And, you know and I was given, like you said, a long list of things to say ways to respond to complaints, ways to respond, to, to positive remarks and comments. And it was, you had to stick to that standard because you know, Applebee's has a personality, Applebee's has a brand that they want to stick to. And, you know, if you come back with a comment, even just a simple comment on their Facebook page is something somebody said about a store in, you know, armpit, Indiana you know, you're like I can't answer like this. I can't be really honest and answer them the way I think it should be answered. I have to answer them according to the Applebee's brand.
Kate (20:40):
Well, you know, in small business, a lot of small business owners don't and we, and I'm talking small business, cause that's basically the, what we deal with on a day-to-day basis. A lot of them don't even know they need that. You know what I mean? So we do have this kind of Bella does cause she handles social media for dozens, dozens of clients where it's like, okay, well what is your automatic replies are? And Bella can talk a little bit more about that, but a lot of times they're not prepared.
Steve (21:07):
Yeah. Right. Right. Exactly. And you know, it is funny, I mean, w with social media, especially, I mean, you have, you have your fans you have your loyal fans, you have your followers not always are they customers, you know th th the trick is to make sure that you answer correctly, that you have, you turn those followers into customers. Absolutely. Right. And I think a lot of that, you know, is who you are and people like what you're posting, but does that mean they like who you are and you have to make them like who you are to turn them into customers.
Kate (21:46):
And I would even go a little bit further here and talk about like a personal brand and meaning a person or something. I, I know certain personal brands that I follow. I sorta know what to expect in a response from them too. Right. I've seen it a zillion times from them. I mean, people even say that with me, they're like, well, we know what Kate's going to do. Right. Right. It's sorta the same thing. You know what I mean? It's establishing that. So people have an understanding of who you are with their customer or not, but there's no like, shock factor. Like, I can't believe I said that or did that, or were posted that.
Steve (22:25):
Yeah, yeah. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Number six, number six. Think about your personality. So this is a good way, a good exercise to help you get to the core of who you are as a brand. Like one of the questions I like to ask is if you were a celebrity, who would it be and who, or what mix of celebrities would you be? Wouldn't you be Tom Hanks, you know, everybody's father, everybody's dad you know, would you be lady Gaga or would you be Samuel Jackson? Or, you know, I think this is going to, it would help you see the image you want your customers to see. Right. because people are, so people are so into celebrities these days and, and, you know, so in tune with their personalities, that if you can align with the personality it will help you come up with that list of words that you would like customers to describe you with. You know?
Kate (23:25):
That's a really good idea, actually. I never really thought about that.
Steve (23:28):
Yeah. It is funny. Cause I was in a a new business meeting with hopefully prospective client. And I brought that question up and he was kind of like taken aback. He didn't know how to answer it. And he's like, oh my gosh, I never thought about that. And you know, it took him a while. But you know, after some talking and talking about who he is and what they're doing and what their brand is doing and what they're up to and everything by the end of the conversation he went, I know who it is. And he, he threw out a name and it's like that. Okay. That's perfect. So it's not just like, oh, I, I love lady Gaga. So we're like leading like that, you know, it's, it's not like that. It's, it's gotta be more about, you know, how you want to be seen.
Kate (24:18):
Yes. And I also think tone, right? Yeah. Like you could, I mean, I, right now I'm just hearing Samuel in my ear right now.
Steve (24:28):
Yes, yes. And I'm sure that would work for some, some brands sign me up for that.
Bella (24:39):
Resonate more with Tom personally,
Steve (24:45):
I was thinking about, we did this whole branding exercise recently for, for my agency. And you know, it was funny some of the names that came up, but, you know, we kind of lean toward Tom Hanks with a little bit of hole rod and maybe some shallow bottom in here, you know? And it's like but it does help you. It really does help you think about you know, who you are. And, but I love the idea of making that list too. How do you want to hear people? Describe you
Kate (25:22):
Identifies like how you can be relatable to somebody too. Absolutely. Yeah. So I love that. Oh, this is awesome. Okay. Number seven,
Steve (25:32):
Here it is be different. You know, your brand is your own brand. It's yours to make you make it ownable, make it unique, find out the difference, figure out what your difference is. We're create the difference. Right. and, and that'll help you stand out from the competition. Just know what they're doing. Right. You should always know what the competition is up to, but then do something else.
Kate (25:57):
Well, that's, I mean, you probably see this where you have clients that come to you and say, we want to do this and they present you with something and they're like, yeah, we want it to look just like this. I'm like, wow.
Steve (26:07):
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I do an exercise. Years ago, I, I helped launch a a vodka brand which is no longer on the market, but because it was infused with caffeine anyway, it was, oh, it was, it was an interesting, yes. Clearly moderation was key with that. But anyway looking at some of the, the, the, the vodka ads and the vodka brands out there and how, you know, generally, I mean, you're talking about a mid-level or, you know, ultra premium vodka, generally, they're basically the same. I mean, they really are, but you know, you go through a magazine and look at the ads and I do this with my class, and I show a lot of these different ads and they're trying, they're creating differences, right? They're creating differences for themselves. If you look at sky vodka, what immediately comes to mind is blue, right. They own that. And that's who they are. And they have kind of this cinematic feel to their ads and, and cinema, you know, and it's all about that, that blueness and, and theory of feeling, you know, look at grey goose, they're, they're the ultra premium and they're distinct. And they call themselves the, you know, the Banca with distinction and they own that. But really when it comes down to it, can you tell the difference, maybe a, you know, a regular vodka drinker could, but generally no. I mean, there's,
Kate (27:38):
You know, it's kind of cool. What you've just identified though, as I'm listening to you is really a lot of this all starts at the brand development or business development phase, right? Absolutely. You need to identify. And that's where I think sometimes we struggle with clients is because, you know, they have an idea or a concept, or they've been kind of trying to do something with the business, and yet they haven't thought through these things. And so when sometimes when we get ahold of them, now I have someone to send them. Steve, thank you. Thank you. Cause, cause we don't want to do that. We want to get it when it's pre it's packing, but that's really, really important is like, Hey, you need to kind of go back before you you're putting the cart before the horse, you got to first do this step before you come to us. And it was really great. The vodka thing is a really a great tool I'm going to use in the future is to say, you see how all this was started at the product development phase and it wasn't an afterthought.
Steve (28:36):
Right? Right. Exactly. Yeah. And it's funny too, because in my class I have a magazine from several years ago. It's like a U I mean a PA wine and spirits magazine and it was a special body issue. So there's like, twenty-five ads in this, you know, 70 page magazine for vodkas. And it's just so fascinating to go through them and see how they're trying to differentiate themselves or create the difference. You know, there was a vodka called 360 vodka and it was, you know, the most the, the most earth-friendly world, you know, green vodka. And the only difference is they're, they're using recycled bottles. Yeah. It's like, okay, but you found a difference, right? You found a way
Kate (29:21):
To tell yourself your spins will be in 360. Okay. So I love it. Number eight. And this really, like, I think if you're starting a business specifically, you need to make sure you do this. So number eight
Steve (29:41):
Experts, you know, I mean, you may think, you know, how you want to be perceived, but brand strategists and creative thinkers can see things that you may not because we're coming at it from a different angle of you. You're you're so you know, you're so married to that business and you're looking at it from your perspective. And sometimes you fail to see the bigger picture. And again, sometimes you fail to see, like I said, number one, you fail to see things through a customer's eyes because you have so much invested in this, in this brand, in your company. And, and it's important to find that agency that understands you, that gets you that understands your goals and your business and not just, you know, oh you know, my nephew works for this agency. We're just going to use them. Or, you know, my, my, my niece is graduating from school with a grad and with a degree in advertising, she's just going to do my, my website for me. And that's, that's what I'm doing. It's like, you need to really think about who you're going to work with. And I know it's an investment, but it really is an investment in your future. It's an investment in the business. And you know, you have to find somebody who you get along with and who gets you.
Kate (31:00):
Yeah. I mean, we do that here too. Like we always tell clients that we want to work with people that want to do the work. Right. Like we're not button pushers and a lot of people come to us and they just want us to post stuff on their social media. That's not what we do, our virtual assistant for that. Right. so we want people that are in it and you know, we're a team, we're a part extension to your marketing team. So yeah, the partnership is
Steve (31:29):
So important. You know, and, and I don't want to make this a, you know, an ad for my agency, but like the way we approach it is we really like to, to become part of the business and to really see things, see what you're doing on a regular basis. We'd like to where we're not just, like you said, we're not just clicking the keys and, and, you know, taking orders, you can get anybody to take orders. Yeah. Yeah.
Kate (31:58):
Listen, listening to them and collaborating
Steve (32:00):
And coming up with thoughts and saying, Hey, did you ever think of doing this? Or, you know, how about I look into this for you? You know, I think this would be a great idea for you, you know, that's what you're going to get from, from the experts. And I think for a small business you know, we have, we work with some small businesses and there's nothing like it when you're helping a business grow. And you know, we're a small business ourselves, so it's, it's, you know, let us help you. And we really do help each other, you know, the better you look, the better we look.
Kate (32:34):
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Hire experts, people
Steve (32:40):
That should have been number one, Steve. Honestly.
Kate (32:46):
Well, thank you so much, Steve. I think you
Bella (32:51):
Absolutely. Steve, can you tell everyone where they can find you online on social media and where they can find fine?
Steve (32:58):
Sure. well you can find pine it@pinephilly.com. We are on LinkedIn pine Philly. We are on Facebook and Instagram. We love our Instagram and we love posting fun stuff on Instagram. So you know, check it out pine Philly and I can be reached steve@pinephilly.com.
Kate (33:24):
Awesome. Steve, thank you so much. This is, thank you. This is definitely this probably should have been one of our first podcasts, honestly, because I really think that businesses really need to hear these things. So thank you so much. Hey Bella, can you tell us what we have next week?
Bella (33:42):
Absolutely. So next week we are going to be sharing eight tips on how to grow your Instagram account. Awesome.
Kate (33:48):
Well, thank you again, Steve, Bella, as always until next time. Happy marketing.